It just one step to GOD in free will in the acceptance of The Truth and promise of Christ Jesus. The road is narrow and hard but in hardship comes great reward. Please if you feel there is something missing in your life know that GOD is there for you. We all have done things were regret and continue to do so in weakness but GOD understands and he will listen to your repentance.
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you.
5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.
6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,
13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Only The Father knows the hour but I feel time is short, we must prepare ourselves in full righteousness today and everyday as GOD will come as a thief in the night.
I agree with everything that you say apart from one technicality – you “are” chosen at birth, you are thrown down the gauntlet and HE does know who’s going to take it and who is not – so in a way, you don’t get a choice because you were always going to choose the right path or the wrong one. Who are the chosen? They’re not people who get back to the garden (“heaven” if you like) and take the best deckchair just next to God & Jesus (with Karen Carpenter singing to them from the next row down 😉 ), they’re simply the ones that light up the path for those who chose to follow them there.
“Thou wast PERFECT in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was FOUND in thee.”
satan/lucifer/devil was a spiritual being and once he let sin grow inside him there was no salvation available, sin in The Spirit is unforgivable.
‘We’ must remember the second death was already on us, (gentile/heathen/pagan) as adults ‘we’ were already condemned, we are not clean until we accept Christ Jesus and kept/keep GODs Law, we must prove our worth every day ‘good’ is not good enough.
a question or two
When did you understand the perfection of GOD and his will? Was it when you were lost or after you accepted his invitation in free will?
Are you already saved or can you still fall?
I have no doubt as Hugo put it, GOD knows the potential of your heart, but at the sharp end of free will nothing is certain. We can theorise and try to understand the power of GOD but we will never really understand. I will say it is a self-fulfilling prophecy in so far as only those able to be fully righteous until the end can be saved, but first you must accept the invitation and stick to the rules, in free will.
In the propagation of the idea of pre-determination there is a stumbling block, it locks people into a state of inactivity. Proof of this as a weapon can be seen in satan’s methods, he spends a great deal of his effort in division. He spreads hate by setting one side against another so there appears to be no way to a solution stuck in throwing accusations at each other.
Hate the ‘Jews’ they are evil, we need to stay clear of ‘Jews’.
The Gentiles hate us and want us dead the ‘rabbi’ is right, we need to stay clear of them.
Romans 8:28-30
‘And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose. For whom he did FOREKNOW, he also did PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover WHOM HE DID PREDESTINATE, THEM HE ALSO CALLED: AND WHOM HE CALLED, THEM HE ALSO JUSTIFIED: AND WHOM HE JUSTIFIED, THEM HE ALSO GLORIFIED.’
Romans 9:17-18
‘For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, “Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.” Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will HE HARDENETH’.
Ephesians 1:3-5
‘Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath CHOSEN US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having PREDESTINATED US unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of HIS will,’
Jude 4
‘For there are certain men crept in unawares, WHICH WERE BEFORE OF OLD ORDAINED TO THIS CONDEMNATION, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.’
These scriptures tell me something quite different to what you are saying Hugo. They say that we are predestined and chosen to either follow Jesus or not. If you think that I am mistaken could you please gently (and I request gently please) show me what they mean?
If Pharaoh had known what God had planned for him, don’t you think that he would have pleaded with God to change his destiny? It was God himself who hardened Pharaoh’s heart in order to shew his hand upon the earth and bring the children of Israel out of Egypt in such great power. If Pharoah had said to Moses “Yeah sure, take all my slaves away and live wherever you are called to go” the plagues would never have been necessary.
Gods will be done.
There are many instances in scripture that confirm that God CHOOSES particular people for his purposes. I won’t list them all here.
We all have abilities and gifts that enable us to be useful in certain circumstances, GOD knows our gifts and faults and so he will pick people to perform certain tasks, even if they are never destined for salvation. GOD used even unrighteous people to preform actions he required to be done. GOD can not make a mistake because he knows the consequence of every action he takes.
We can look at Paul, in the Physical Law Paul was the highest of the high. GOD needed a bridge between The Physical Covenant and the new Spiritual Covenant so he chose Paul to be that bridge. Paul had the gravity to influence the Physical followers (his knowledge and adherence to the Physical Law could not be questioned) but he a gift that allowed him to follow GOD’s command tenaciously in bringing in the righteous Gentiles. He had a specific task that he had the unique ability to perform, so he was chosen, but chosen specifically for that task
Being chosen to perform a certain task is not the same as guaranteeing salvation, in free will their is no guarantee of salvation. You can examine Moses, I would not count myself anywhere near Moses but Moses still fell, was Moses a great man, Yes but still he made a mistake, as well all can. GOD can not remove our free will, he can not coerce us or force us to act against our will to salvation. GOD has appeared to people and told them directly how to behave to come to salvation but how many listened? The only way to guarantee aberrance would be to take control of our will. Would you hobble your children so they did not risk their lives crossing the road?
Many people read The Old Testament and question how GOD could allow such things as this, but at this time without this intervention there would have been no people of GOD left to save. GOD knew the Medes, he knew their faults and their abilities, he knew them by their fruits. God did not force them into their methods he just knew what they would do in that situation.
17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.
18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.
19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees’ excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
I know I may not be saved, only GOD knows but I have decided to try my best to be righteous and whatever GOD wills for me can only ever be right.
I hope I have answered your questions in a way you find useful.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply Loccie.
I totally agree with you on the above and this question keeps arising within myself : “Just how much free will do we actually have?”
You’re correct that God does not override our free will, we all have choices that we make which ultimately boil down to being ‘In Christ Jesus’ or not ‘In Christ Jesus’. Even something as simple as whether to drink a cup of coffee or not : Does Jesus want his temple to consume that coffee or is he saying something else? Is our flesh telling us to drink that coffee or are we being led by the Spirit of God? Corinthians I 10:31 states
‘Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.’
So if I drink that coffee without the affirmation of his spirit then I would be in error according to him; being led by the flesh as opposed to his spirit.
So in that simple matter alone we can see that our free will choice will either lead (in some way) to life or death.
But as for Hugo’s point on whether or not we are ‘chosen’ (which he seems to be saying that we are not), the New Testament makes it clear that God has : ‘chosen us in him before the foundation of the world’!
This is great news and not something to be glossed over as not a thing worthy to behold. To me, this verse says that we were there with him at the beginning of creation, before the world was constructed, chosen by God specifically to be in Jesus Christ the Messiah! But something happens along the way. We get distracted by the world and it’s ways and that ‘light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world’ gets extinguished by the dark powers in the heavenly realms and it then becomes a huge struggle to reignite that ‘true light’ and keep it lit. Is this due to our choices every time? Or does God sometimes allow us to make wrong choices for his greater purposes?
I wish that I knew the mind of God but his ways our higher than our ways and his thoughts higher than our thoughts. We only see in part….
But we ARE chosen!
1 Peter 2:9 ‘But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people……’
When you say “but we are chosen”.
Who is “we”?
The context of that verse 1 peter 2 9
Is it being a letter written to Christians who are experiencing suffering and persecution.
Peter calls them to live a life that honors God, even in the midst of adversity, and to be a positive influence in the world.
The point being that it is a letter written to Christians, specifically, written to believers, written to those who have the holy spirit.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
47 “Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a fishing net that was thrown into the water and caught fish of every kind.
48 When the net was full, they dragged it up onto the shore, sat down, and sorted the good fish into crates, but threw the bad ones away.
49 That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous,
50 throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
51 Do you understand all these things?”
“Yes,” they said, “we do.”
52 Then he added, “Every teacher of religious law who becomes a disciple in the Kingdom of Heaven is like a homeowner who brings from his storeroom new gems of truth as well as old.”
~
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 14:4-5 ‘These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were the redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.’
Who are these?
Revelation 14:1
‘And I looked, and, Lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Si’-on, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.’
Seems like you have quoted from the same chapter Loccie but later on. If we can safely say who Gods Chosen are : it is the ‘hundred and forty and four thousand’.
But that is quite a limited number. Does it include the people that Peter was referring to in 1 Peter 2:9?
Or Does God have more ‘chosen’ people than that? Certainly there is a clear distinction between the ‘hundred forty and four thousand’ and other believers in Jesus because:
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.
These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.
These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Jesus’s parables often show that there are different categories of believers in him : the parable of the ‘talents’ being a perfect example:
Some will have 5 talents and be faithful with them, some will have 2 talents and be faithful with them. But the ones with 1 talent will be unfaithful with it:
Matthew 25:29
‘For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.’
These people were entrusted with something from God to share and make more with but they were all given different amounts to use. So surely, those with 2 talents also share in the same glory (to be ruler over many things) as those with 5 talents. If the ones with 5 talents are ‘chosen’, surely those with 2 talents are ‘chosen’ too?!?
Whereas the ones with 1 talent (who buried what God gave to them to use) are not ‘chosen’.
Do you see where I’m coming from here? I believe that there are more ‘chosen’ than just the elite because we who believe and ‘follow’ remain in him. I’m not saying that I get this ‘following of Jesus’ right all the time, I don’t. I fail as much as the next person but I’m doing my best with the help of the Holy Spirit. Does that mean that I am not ‘chosen’ because I’m not perfect before God? Surely all of us who believe in him and do our best to follow Jesus ARE ‘chosen’ (predestined to be in Christ) because we have received this ‘calling’ in the first place and responded?
I don’t want or choose to be a 1 talent believer: By the grace of God.
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Luke 17:33
I will be honest, I wrote out an entire document listing who the 144.000 are and the chronological order of those saved and why, but having read all your correspondence again I have decided to keep things personal.
You are obviously a sensitive person, which I am also. We have to be careful not to fall into a spiral of self doubt, over thinking and fear, (I am an overthinker too) there are many traps in fear and worry. I have said on here (HugoTalks) before as satan is in charge of our testing he will choose our tenderest nerve. When we voice out loud those things that perplex us satan is listening and taking notes.
Unfortunately I can not guarantee you will be saved, I can not even guarantee that for myself, GOD will judge and he can not make a mistake.
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
We must do as GOD instructs us and wait to see if it was good enough.
The point we have to accept is, even if GOD knows who will be saved, we do not, that is extremely important for two reasons.
1 We need to prove we can rule over sin in free will whilst surrounded by sin.
2 If ‘we’ even thought we were already saved it would lead to losing salvation through arrogance ref Matthew 24:42-51.
Paul’s hope to be raised in Christ, unknown by him and he knows he must strive every day to gain salvation.
“The goal I pursue is the prize of God’s upward call in Christ Jesus. So all of us who are spiritually mature should think this way, and if anyone thinks differently, God will reveal it to him or her.”
10 The righteousness that I have comes from knowing Christ, the power of his resurrection, and the participation in his sufferings. It includes being conformed to his death
11 so that I may perhaps reach the goal of the resurrection of the dead.
12 It’s not that I have already reached this goal or have already been perfected, but I pursue it, so that I may grab hold of it because Christ grabbed hold of me for just this purpose.
13 Brothers and sisters, I myself don’t think I’ve reached it, but I do this one thing: I forget about the things behind me and reach out for the things ahead of me.
14 The goal I pursue is the prize of God’s upward call in Christ Jesus.
15 So all of us who are spiritually mature should think this way, and if anyone thinks differently, God will reveal it to him or her.
16 Only let’s live in a way that is consistent with whatever level we have reached.
Philippians 3, 10-16
10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Matthew 15, 10-11
The word generation has a very specific meaning in The Bible.
Just follow the signs, the synchronicities, that’s my direct line anyway. Some are funny & others are a downright pain in the proverbial, but each time you come through them you get to find out a bit more about yourself and the Universe. Pass on your knowledge subtly and with kindness, stay true and do everything in a willing, calm and fearless manner. Always forgive yourself when you feel you’ve “failed”. When somebody is in darkness, point them gently towards the light.
Dunno about you guys, but that’s what I’ve been put here for – still work-in-progress. I don’t like reading books much for some reason, but luckily I have Hugo to read this big one to me 🙂
Hugo Talks 
It just one step to GOD in free will in the acceptance of The Truth and promise of Christ Jesus. The road is narrow and hard but in hardship comes great reward. Please if you feel there is something missing in your life know that GOD is there for you. We all have done things were regret and continue to do so in weakness but GOD understands and he will listen to your repentance.
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you.
5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.
6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,
13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Only The Father knows the hour but I feel time is short, we must prepare ourselves in full righteousness today and everyday as GOD will come as a thief in the night.
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I agree with everything that you say apart from one technicality – you “are” chosen at birth, you are thrown down the gauntlet and HE does know who’s going to take it and who is not – so in a way, you don’t get a choice because you were always going to choose the right path or the wrong one. Who are the chosen? They’re not people who get back to the garden (“heaven” if you like) and take the best deckchair just next to God & Jesus (with Karen Carpenter singing to them from the next row down 😉 ), they’re simply the ones that light up the path for those who chose to follow them there.
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“Thou wast PERFECT in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was FOUND in thee.”
satan/lucifer/devil was a spiritual being and once he let sin grow inside him there was no salvation available, sin in The Spirit is unforgivable.
‘We’ must remember the second death was already on us, (gentile/heathen/pagan) as adults ‘we’ were already condemned, we are not clean until we accept Christ Jesus and kept/keep GODs Law, we must prove our worth every day ‘good’ is not good enough.
a question or two
When did you understand the perfection of GOD and his will? Was it when you were lost or after you accepted his invitation in free will?
Are you already saved or can you still fall?
I have no doubt as Hugo put it, GOD knows the potential of your heart, but at the sharp end of free will nothing is certain. We can theorise and try to understand the power of GOD but we will never really understand. I will say it is a self-fulfilling prophecy in so far as only those able to be fully righteous until the end can be saved, but first you must accept the invitation and stick to the rules, in free will.
In the propagation of the idea of pre-determination there is a stumbling block, it locks people into a state of inactivity. Proof of this as a weapon can be seen in satan’s methods, he spends a great deal of his effort in division. He spreads hate by setting one side against another so there appears to be no way to a solution stuck in throwing accusations at each other.
Hate the ‘Jews’ they are evil, we need to stay clear of ‘Jews’.
The Gentiles hate us and want us dead the ‘rabbi’ is right, we need to stay clear of them.
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Beautifully put, absolutely spot on. Thank you Hugo for this narrative. 🙏🏻
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Romans 8:28-30
‘And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose. For whom he did FOREKNOW, he also did PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover WHOM HE DID PREDESTINATE, THEM HE ALSO CALLED: AND WHOM HE CALLED, THEM HE ALSO JUSTIFIED: AND WHOM HE JUSTIFIED, THEM HE ALSO GLORIFIED.’
Romans 9:17-18
‘For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, “Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.” Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will HE HARDENETH’.
Ephesians 1:3-5
‘Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath CHOSEN US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having PREDESTINATED US unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of HIS will,’
Jude 4
‘For there are certain men crept in unawares, WHICH WERE BEFORE OF OLD ORDAINED TO THIS CONDEMNATION, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.’
These scriptures tell me something quite different to what you are saying Hugo. They say that we are predestined and chosen to either follow Jesus or not. If you think that I am mistaken could you please gently (and I request gently please) show me what they mean?
If Pharaoh had known what God had planned for him, don’t you think that he would have pleaded with God to change his destiny? It was God himself who hardened Pharaoh’s heart in order to shew his hand upon the earth and bring the children of Israel out of Egypt in such great power. If Pharoah had said to Moses “Yeah sure, take all my slaves away and live wherever you are called to go” the plagues would never have been necessary.
Gods will be done.
There are many instances in scripture that confirm that God CHOOSES particular people for his purposes. I won’t list them all here.
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StraightLight
We all have abilities and gifts that enable us to be useful in certain circumstances, GOD knows our gifts and faults and so he will pick people to perform certain tasks, even if they are never destined for salvation. GOD used even unrighteous people to preform actions he required to be done. GOD can not make a mistake because he knows the consequence of every action he takes.
We can look at Paul, in the Physical Law Paul was the highest of the high. GOD needed a bridge between The Physical Covenant and the new Spiritual Covenant so he chose Paul to be that bridge. Paul had the gravity to influence the Physical followers (his knowledge and adherence to the Physical Law could not be questioned) but he a gift that allowed him to follow GOD’s command tenaciously in bringing in the righteous Gentiles. He had a specific task that he had the unique ability to perform, so he was chosen, but chosen specifically for that task
Being chosen to perform a certain task is not the same as guaranteeing salvation, in free will their is no guarantee of salvation. You can examine Moses, I would not count myself anywhere near Moses but Moses still fell, was Moses a great man, Yes but still he made a mistake, as well all can. GOD can not remove our free will, he can not coerce us or force us to act against our will to salvation. GOD has appeared to people and told them directly how to behave to come to salvation but how many listened? The only way to guarantee aberrance would be to take control of our will. Would you hobble your children so they did not risk their lives crossing the road?
Many people read The Old Testament and question how GOD could allow such things as this, but at this time without this intervention there would have been no people of GOD left to save. GOD knew the Medes, he knew their faults and their abilities, he knew them by their fruits. God did not force them into their methods he just knew what they would do in that situation.
17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.
18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.
19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees’ excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
I know I may not be saved, only GOD knows but I have decided to try my best to be righteous and whatever GOD wills for me can only ever be right.
I hope I have answered your questions in a way you find useful.
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Thank you so much for taking the time to reply Loccie.
I totally agree with you on the above and this question keeps arising within myself : “Just how much free will do we actually have?”
You’re correct that God does not override our free will, we all have choices that we make which ultimately boil down to being ‘In Christ Jesus’ or not ‘In Christ Jesus’. Even something as simple as whether to drink a cup of coffee or not : Does Jesus want his temple to consume that coffee or is he saying something else? Is our flesh telling us to drink that coffee or are we being led by the Spirit of God? Corinthians I 10:31 states
‘Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.’
So if I drink that coffee without the affirmation of his spirit then I would be in error according to him; being led by the flesh as opposed to his spirit.
So in that simple matter alone we can see that our free will choice will either lead (in some way) to life or death.
But as for Hugo’s point on whether or not we are ‘chosen’ (which he seems to be saying that we are not), the New Testament makes it clear that God has : ‘chosen us in him before the foundation of the world’!
This is great news and not something to be glossed over as not a thing worthy to behold. To me, this verse says that we were there with him at the beginning of creation, before the world was constructed, chosen by God specifically to be in Jesus Christ the Messiah! But something happens along the way. We get distracted by the world and it’s ways and that ‘light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world’ gets extinguished by the dark powers in the heavenly realms and it then becomes a huge struggle to reignite that ‘true light’ and keep it lit. Is this due to our choices every time? Or does God sometimes allow us to make wrong choices for his greater purposes?
I wish that I knew the mind of God but his ways our higher than our ways and his thoughts higher than our thoughts. We only see in part….
But we ARE chosen!
1 Peter 2:9 ‘But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people……’
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When you say “but we are chosen”.
Who is “we”?
The context of that verse 1 peter 2 9
Is it being a letter written to Christians who are experiencing suffering and persecution.
Peter calls them to live a life that honors God, even in the midst of adversity, and to be a positive influence in the world.
The point being that it is a letter written to Christians, specifically, written to believers, written to those who have the holy spirit.
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Thank you for your reply Hugo,
Who are the chosen to you?
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Those fully righteous until the very end.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
47 “Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a fishing net that was thrown into the water and caught fish of every kind.
48 When the net was full, they dragged it up onto the shore, sat down, and sorted the good fish into crates, but threw the bad ones away.
49 That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous,
50 throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
51 Do you understand all these things?”
“Yes,” they said, “we do.”
52 Then he added, “Every teacher of religious law who becomes a disciple in the Kingdom of Heaven is like a homeowner who brings from his storeroom new gems of truth as well as old.”
~
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
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More likely:
Revelation 14:4-5 ‘These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were the redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.’
Who are these?
Revelation 14:1
‘And I looked, and, Lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Si’-on, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.’
Seems like you have quoted from the same chapter Loccie but later on. If we can safely say who Gods Chosen are : it is the ‘hundred and forty and four thousand’.
But that is quite a limited number. Does it include the people that Peter was referring to in 1 Peter 2:9?
Or Does God have more ‘chosen’ people than that? Certainly there is a clear distinction between the ‘hundred forty and four thousand’ and other believers in Jesus because:
These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.
These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Jesus’s parables often show that there are different categories of believers in him : the parable of the ‘talents’ being a perfect example:
Some will have 5 talents and be faithful with them, some will have 2 talents and be faithful with them. But the ones with 1 talent will be unfaithful with it:
Matthew 25:29
‘For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.’
These people were entrusted with something from God to share and make more with but they were all given different amounts to use. So surely, those with 2 talents also share in the same glory (to be ruler over many things) as those with 5 talents. If the ones with 5 talents are ‘chosen’, surely those with 2 talents are ‘chosen’ too?!?
Whereas the ones with 1 talent (who buried what God gave to them to use) are not ‘chosen’.
Do you see where I’m coming from here? I believe that there are more ‘chosen’ than just the elite because we who believe and ‘follow’ remain in him. I’m not saying that I get this ‘following of Jesus’ right all the time, I don’t. I fail as much as the next person but I’m doing my best with the help of the Holy Spirit. Does that mean that I am not ‘chosen’ because I’m not perfect before God? Surely all of us who believe in him and do our best to follow Jesus ARE ‘chosen’ (predestined to be in Christ) because we have received this ‘calling’ in the first place and responded?
I don’t want or choose to be a 1 talent believer: By the grace of God.
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StraightLight
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Luke 17:33
I will be honest, I wrote out an entire document listing who the 144.000 are and the chronological order of those saved and why, but having read all your correspondence again I have decided to keep things personal.
You are obviously a sensitive person, which I am also. We have to be careful not to fall into a spiral of self doubt, over thinking and fear, (I am an overthinker too) there are many traps in fear and worry. I have said on here (HugoTalks) before as satan is in charge of our testing he will choose our tenderest nerve. When we voice out loud those things that perplex us satan is listening and taking notes.
Unfortunately I can not guarantee you will be saved, I can not even guarantee that for myself, GOD will judge and he can not make a mistake.
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
We must do as GOD instructs us and wait to see if it was good enough.
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StraightLight
The point we have to accept is, even if GOD knows who will be saved, we do not, that is extremely important for two reasons.
1 We need to prove we can rule over sin in free will whilst surrounded by sin.
2 If ‘we’ even thought we were already saved it would lead to losing salvation through arrogance ref Matthew 24:42-51.
Paul’s hope to be raised in Christ, unknown by him and he knows he must strive every day to gain salvation.
“The goal I pursue is the prize of God’s upward call in Christ Jesus. So all of us who are spiritually mature should think this way, and if anyone thinks differently, God will reveal it to him or her.”
10 The righteousness that I have comes from knowing Christ, the power of his resurrection, and the participation in his sufferings. It includes being conformed to his death
11 so that I may perhaps reach the goal of the resurrection of the dead.
12 It’s not that I have already reached this goal or have already been perfected, but I pursue it, so that I may grab hold of it because Christ grabbed hold of me for just this purpose.
13 Brothers and sisters, I myself don’t think I’ve reached it, but I do this one thing: I forget about the things behind me and reach out for the things ahead of me.
14 The goal I pursue is the prize of God’s upward call in Christ Jesus.
15 So all of us who are spiritually mature should think this way, and if anyone thinks differently, God will reveal it to him or her.
16 Only let’s live in a way that is consistent with whatever level we have reached.
Philippians 3, 10-16
10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Matthew 15, 10-11
The word generation has a very specific meaning in The Bible.
https://biblehub.com/q/what_is_a_biblical_generation.htm
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Just follow the signs, the synchronicities, that’s my direct line anyway. Some are funny & others are a downright pain in the proverbial, but each time you come through them you get to find out a bit more about yourself and the Universe. Pass on your knowledge subtly and with kindness, stay true and do everything in a willing, calm and fearless manner. Always forgive yourself when you feel you’ve “failed”. When somebody is in darkness, point them gently towards the light.
Dunno about you guys, but that’s what I’ve been put here for – still work-in-progress. I don’t like reading books much for some reason, but luckily I have Hugo to read this big one to me 🙂
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